DUST Search - Swarm Launcher 2.0

S Park Finner wrote:

I like the roles you've identified but right now I'd rather see them in separate weapons than all wrapped into a single multipurpose weapon.

More configuration options and the possibility of ammo swaps in the field are a fun idea for EVE folks but may not be right for DUST 514. A clear cut role for a weapon makes it more easily understandable and makes fitting a particular battlefield role easier. The current mechanics don't support multiple ammo types, though they may in the future. Swapping weapons and reloading need to be improved across the boards. A weapon of this kind at this stage would suffer from handicaps in the underlying system that were not really it's fault.

I see the kind of weapon your suggesting as a "next generation" weapon for after the game gets established.

On one specific point...

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Alternatively this idea was to specifically fix pathing as well.

Do you think the pathing with the current Swarm Launcher implementation can not be fixed? If they did track targets and didn't run into things would they be more useful?

I suggested changes to swarms as AV only weapons here but those changes would depend on the system being able to manage pathing.


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Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.05 17:18:00 - [1] - Quote Swarm Launcher 2.0 Roles Anti-vehicle Anti-air Anti-facility Squad Suppression and Dispersal Explosive Ordinance Disposal This high tech Caldari weapon launches a smart missile able to dispense ordinance on demand to bombard and suppress areas. Magazine Size 1 (prevent accidental re-firing) Reserve : 5-10 Swarm Missiles Modes of Operation Auto-dispener mode aka "Dry Fire" The missile will fly over an area in straight line fired out of the missile. When the operator triggers the launcher with a missile in the air it sends a signal to the missile to automatically dispenses ordinance at range bombarding the ground beneath it. Higher meta levels allow longer bombardment endurance. The missile will not dispense if its not triggered in flight. The missile does no damage if it hits something. Only the dispensed ordinance does damage. The damage will not be concentrated enough to kill infantry but it will be enough to get them out of hiding and damage entire squads who mass up. Saturation mode aka "Land Lock" The operator will use the launcher's computer to lock onto area and then launch the swarm launcher near the target area. The swarm missile will then rain a concentrated effort into the area potentially killing infantry caught in the blast. The operator can determine the angle of attack by adjusting the approach to the firing the missile at a different angle vs the target. Similar to auto-dispenser mode the grenades are only dispensed when the operator triggers the missile in flight further the potential angle of attack opportunities. A highly skill operator can hit targets behind buildings or inside nooks and clear out well dug in snipers. Anti-vehicle mode The operator will use the launcher's computer to lock onto a vehicle and then launch the swarm launcher near the target's area. A smart operator would launch the missile for an interception plot. The swarm missile will then rain medium ranged homing ordinance towards the vehicle. The operator can determine the angle of attack by adjusting the approach to the firing the missile at a different angle vs the target. Similar to auto-dispenser mode the grenades are only dispensed when the operator triggers the missile in flight further the potential angle of attack opportunities. A highly skill operator can get the majority of the swarm grenades to land their hits. An proficient swarm launcher operator would be able to hit the weak spots on vehicles with great accuracy and concentration. Lock Behavior Prioritizes vehicles in lock scope. Secondary Lock onto land mass only near dead center. Vehicle locks have a longer time to unlock times and wider angle to break lock to allow for intercept plotting of much faster vehicles. Land locks break easily. Dispenser Behavior The Swarm Missile Flies in a straight line, only one swarm launcher can be active at time, missile's range is far. Dispenser directionally dispenses ordinance towards the target unless specified. Dispensers get destroyed if they hit an object dealing nearly no damage as grenades are armed when dispensed. Swarm Behavior Further from the target the dispenser is the more spread out the damage becomes thus weakening its effect. When working for anti-vehicle mode the range of tracking is also short so the closer to target its dispensed at the more likely all the grenades will hit. Swarms detonate on impact unless stated otherwise. *Variants* Assault Assault dispenses more weaker grenades than standard versions over a wider area, best use for suppression Burst Burst Variants dispenses short ranged grenades in all directions of dispersion point that travel a short distance from dispersion point and then detonate. Cannot lock onto targets. Breach This variant takes longer to lock onto targets and dispenses fewer swarm grenades but the grenades are far more powerful than found on standard launchers. May not dry-fire, requires lock to fire. Homing This dispenser has a tracking head and a more powerful thruster to assist in vehicle interception, this increases lock time and reduces number of reserve missiles. Specialist While having reduced reserve ammo it also has reduced fitting requirements. Tactical This dispenser has a tighter pattern than standard further concentrating the damage. Requires Lock *Skills* Basic Use Unlocks variants and Advanced Swarm Launchers. Decreases Lock Time Advanced Use Unlock prototype and variants Increases damage. Meta-level Increases number of grenades dispensed. Due to the larger number of grenades there wont be a 150% increase between one meta level and the next and it will be a more manageable 5-10% increases. Other things I would like to see changed. Explosive damage be based on signature radius of the target, so an explosive would do far less damage to infantry while larger targets receive more of the damage. Reasons for changing the swarm launcher Increases player skill and reward smarter usage of the launcher Increases interaction with the launcher. To improve overall anti-vehicle function of the launcher. To Sci-fi the launcher up some more. To re-include infantry capabilities but make them difficult to score kills with. To not make the heavy suit with swarm launcher feel like an idiot when he is unable to kill anyone with the launcher.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.06 02:42:00 - [2] - Quote I am open to a lock less versions Essentially what changes is that the spread become omni-directional and the grenades inherit interim from the dispenser unless specified. the dispenser is still a straight flying missile that does little direct impact damage (enough for infantry killing potential) Assault Assault dispenses more grenades over a wider area, the explosions are not as powerful, best use for suppression Burst Burst Variants dispenses short ranged grenades in all directions of dispersion point that travel then detonate on a short timed fuse. Grenades are fin-chuted thus causing a retardation and does not have inertia from the dispenser. Breach This variant dispenses fewer swarm grenades but the grenades are far more powerful than found on standard launchers. Homing This dispenser releases AV seeking grenades while weaker and fewer in number, than standard grenades they are more prone to hit the vehicle. Standard This variant launches a spread of grenades over an area when triggered, the grenades inherit the inertia of the causing a blanket of grenades onto an area. Specialist While having reduced reserve ammo it also has reduced fitting requirements. Tactical This dispenser has a tighter pattern than standard further concentrating the damage. Requires Lock
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.06 02:50:00 - [3] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: from the sound of everything it sounds like you want a grenade launcher and not a missile launcher. Considering the blending going on today there is very little difference between a grenade, rocket, and missile.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.06 06:25:00 - [4] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Considering the blending going on today there is very little difference between a grenade, rocket, and missile. grenades are just a self contained explosive device. while also being a self contained explosive rockets are unguided and missiles are guided. as for these changes, they all seem way to gimmicky to be used. they all have a single purpose and what seems to be going on is that they are too weak to be effective. why would you want a grenade launcher when you can just pick up a mass driver and do it better? you can't go back to the old build of swarms because they were too effective against dropsuits. they limited the damage making them pretty worthless to dropsuits to compensate. now they are useful but only to vehicles that are weak. using weapons that have only one purpose is usually a death sentence for the weapon and sees practically no service. if everyone wasn't running around in LAVs ready to be killed i would probably not use it (i love blowing a fully packed LAV). The swarm launcher has range, reach, and coverage, the mass driver only hits one tiney small spot this is meant to carpet bomb LAVs, Tanks, and Blobs of infantry mostly. Secondary Function Is EOD which is a role far too time expensive to do with a mass driver.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.06 06:57:00 - [5] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The swarm launcher has range, reach, and coverage, the mass driver only hits one tiney small spot this is meant to carpet bomb LAVs, Tanks, and Blobs of infantry mostly. Secondary Function Is EOD which is a role far too time expensive to do with a mass driver. a cluster bomb might be interesting but i don't see it being too effective, swarms have a hard time doing anything at the moment. if a tank is fitted really good they 5-10 people have to pull out some form of AV to push the tank back away. it doesn't kill tanks but it forces them to retreat till their shields are back up and their shield rep is reset. launching into the air and landing on vehicles is something the swarms should already do (like a javelin). instead of launching breaking into 4-6 parts and then derping their way into the vehicle or dropship. but i could be wrong right now the pace is slow and doesn't offer anything for anyone who wants fast pace action. well right now swarms have an extremely nasty habit of slamming into everything along the way to the target making them more useless. But carpet bombing + large target = more damage.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.06 07:30:00 - [6] - Quote Yeah I agree about explosion mechanics needed to be adopted from eve, larger the target the more of the damage explosives do to the target.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.06 13:52:00 - [7] - Quote Necrodermis wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Yeah I agree about explosion mechanics needed to be adopted from eve, larger the target the more of the damage explosives do to the target. i just wouldn't know how they would work out. making them R for rockets that can fit in light weapon slots. swarms, rocket lawnchairs, might as well throw mass drivers in there as well because area damage of sorts. have 4 separate skills instead of the normal 4. we could use existing skills, demolitions and explosive reducing the amount of explosion radius *ergo more damage" to a target size factor.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.07 07:39:00 - [8] - Quote E-Dino wrote: Having the missles go killzone style and launch up and cluster down would be an amazing asset in the battle field. Makes it so people cant really out run them and making Anti-vehicle truly anti-vehicle. its less about being able to outrun them and more about aiming the damn things right the first time.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.07 18:58:00 - [9] - Quote The thing about ammo in New Eden, its mostly changed out to alter damage profiles not add functionality. Alternatively this idea was to specifically fix pathing as well.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.08 02:26:00 - [10] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: I like the roles you've identified but right now I'd rather see them in separate weapons than all wrapped into a single multipurpose weapon. More configuration options and the possibility of ammo swaps in the field are a fun idea for EVE folks but may not be right for DUST 514. A clear cut role for a weapon makes it more easily understandable and makes fitting a particular battlefield role easier. The current mechanics don't support multiple ammo types, though they may in the future. Swapping weapons and reloading need to be improved across the boards. A weapon of this kind at this stage would suffer from handicaps in the underlying system that were not really it's fault. I see the kind of weapon your suggesting as a "next generation" weapon for after the game gets established. On one specific point... Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Alternatively this idea was to specifically fix pathing as well. Do you think the pathing with the current Swarm Launcher implementation can not be fixed? If they did track targets and didn't run into things would they be more useful? I suggested changes to swarms as AV only weapons here but those changes would depend on the system being able to manage pathing. We talk to wolfman rather often and he is well aware of missiles going wild weasel as well and so far hasn't told us the cause of it.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2867	Posted - 2012.11.28 19:00:00 - [11] - Quote Anyways from talks with the developers it would seem that current swarm launcher system is being scrapped in favor of a new one.